• Re: Nodes location. Funny statistics.

    From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Dennis Slagers on Wed Aug 6 17:11:15 2025
    Hey Dennis!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 00:55:46 -0500, you wrote:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure it,
    it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which is ok
    and wanted and meant to be.

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record, do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is) in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled somehow by the registrar.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old routers.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Aug 6 17:20:06 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 03:20:58 -0500, you wrote:

    In the past, in the IPv4 only age, some providers here offered
    customers xxxx.provider.nl as a host name linked to their static IPv4 address. xxxx was for he customer to choose. That practise stopped
    over a decade ago and I do not see how that could be extended to IPv6
    to "work out of the box". For IPv6 there usually is k\just one IP
    address and it points to the to of the customer's NAT. That would not
    work "out of the box" for running a server because the customer still
    had to configure a port forwward and possibly puncj hols in firewalls
    but it could be a start. Fo IPv6 there is not a single IP adres for
    the whole system. There is no way the provider would know what IPv6
    address to proconfigure for it to "work out of the box".

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their DNS provider?

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6, where
    do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    Possibly. So these nodes have become zombie nodes for all intents an puposes?

    I imagine there's quite a few. Did the most recent report from Dmitry show about 25% of Fidonet participants are dead wood? ;)

    So have I. I have no idea what we can do to remedie the situation.

    I'm not so sure we can.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Aug 6 17:21:24 2025
    Hey Wilfred!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 04:11:52 -0500, you wrote:

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA record,
    that is based on the mac address.

    With this in mind, I have heard quite a few sysops mention using a VPS over the years. So, if this is a thing, maybe our question is finally answered!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Aug 7 07:29:16 2025

    Hello Wilfred!

    06 Aug 25 09:23, you wrote to me:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure
    it, it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which
    is ok and wanted and meant to be.

    There might be some package deals where you buy a VPS with a Hostname, where the DNS for the hostname is preconfigured to point to the VPS...

    yeah, but than its an hostname you do not control. And it should not be used as such.

    I had VPS like h283484.stratoserver.net for example but such hostname would I not suggest to
    use for ie. a mention in the nodelist.

    but alas I understand that in above way it is possible that a party already configured the
    IPv6 record as well although it might not be configured on the VPS ;)

    Dennis


    ... It's a layer 8 problem.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 07:41:34 2025

    Hello Nick!

    06 Aug 25 17:11, you wrote to me:

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record,
    do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    What Wilfred was stating and I overlooked:
    when you buy a VPS you can have an IPv4 and IPv6 for you reserved.
    they would than tell you that h28588.stratoserver.net is ie. 185.50.1.12 and 2010:383 etc.. for Ipv6
    normally just for your own 'admin' access so that you do not have to remember the addresses
    and the machine is than reachable for you. However as you are not in control of that DNS
    you would never use that (normally) DNS name for your usage to the public.

    You would go to a registrar to say: mynicedomain.com and configure it in ie. cloudflare with
    fido.mynicedomain has the I record 185.50.1.12 and/or when you want to have IPv6 the IPv6 of your vhost

    Of course: if you do enable IPv6 and it is availalbe on that machine it would not work on your mynicedomain.com but it would work on h28588.stratoserver, but as nobody knows that it would probably
    not being used (or for scanners who scan such a VPS)

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA
    record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many
    people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is)
    in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled
    somehow by the registrar.

    A hoster could do that. A registrar or DNS provider cannot do that. The owner of a domain within a DNS provider can do that which is than (in my example stratoserver) who could do that.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was
    completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up
    and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old
    routers.

    Yes and that has changed (proably) to if IPv6 is enabled the firewall drops all until you open ports

    IPv6 is still niche .. so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they only do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM manufacturer for end-user consumer market)

    There are ISP's who give users routers with dual stack, but as I am not using that hardware I do not know if IPv6 is enabled by default.

    But hey open ports is asking for trouble so they would drop every incoming connection until it is configured otherwise

    Dennis


    ... The cloud is just someone else's computer.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 07:51:26 2025

    Hello Nick!

    06 Aug 25 17:20, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their
    DNS provider?

    You can advertise what you want but without configuring it as their DNS provider it has no use

    If I told Michiel that my IPv6 was ::1 and he would use that for his IPv6 lists .. mwoah ;)
    it does not exist for my fido.domain.com but I can tell I am using it.

    Probably I than get a lesson from Michiel about it ..

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6,
    where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    Indeed.
    But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not use fido anymore and you forget about it
    or your IPv6 has been changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your DNS..
    than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work anymore as you are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.


    Dennis


    ... Yes, the email bounced. No, I won't fix it.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 07:59:37 2025
    Hi Dennis,

    On 2025-08-07 07:29:16, you wrote to me:

    but alas I understand that in above way it is possible that a party already configured the IPv6 record as well although it might not be configured on the VPS ;)

    VPS's mostly come preconfigured with a working IPv4 and IPv6 address, that is known to the VPS provider, in my experience...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 12:04:57 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:11, you wrote to Dennis Slagers:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure
    it, it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which is
    ok and wanted and meant to be.

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record,
    do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    What do you mean by "points to A" in this context?

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA
    record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many
    people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is)
    in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled
    somehow by the registrar.

    I think Dennis and Wilfred already commented on that.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was
    completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up
    and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old
    routers.

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a very few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 12:13:19 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:20, you wrote to me:

    Hey Michiel!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 03:20:58 -0500, you wrote:

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their
    DNS provider?

    after having read Dennis'and WIlfred's comments let me say that I have yet to come across a syosp - or non sysop for that matter- who claims "I have no idea how that AAAA record got into my host name, but it certainly wasn't me doing it".

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6,
    where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    And it still is not answered to my satisfaction.

    Possibly. So these nodes have become zombie nodes for all intents
    an puposes?

    I imagine there's quite a few. Did the most recent report from Dmitry
    show about 25% of Fidonet participants are dead wood? ;)

    Yes, and I am not surprised.

    But here we are confronted with a next level issue. We see systems that are up and running, the binkd server answers (IPv4 only) and *.PKTs are accepted. And there it ends. A more general problem not limited to IPv6. I call them zombie systems. They appear to be alive but the sysop is ... not responding.

    So have I. I have no idea what we can do to remedie the situation.

    I'm not so sure we can.

    Indeed.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 14:59:44 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:21, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they
    also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA
    record, that is based on the mac address.

    With this in mind, I have heard quite a few sysops mention using a VPS over the years. So, if this is a thing, maybe our question is finally answered!

    I don't believe it until I actually come across a sysop who claimes this happened to him/her.



    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 16:26:51 2025
    Hello Dennis,

    On Thursday August 07 2025 07:41, you wrote to Nick Boel:

    IPv6 is still niche ..

    I disagree. While it is not yet the dominant protocol, it hovers just under 50% global use. It is not a niche.

    so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they only
    do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM manufacturer for
    end-user consumer market)

    How long ago was that?

    There are ISP's who give users routers with dual stack, but as I am
    not using that hardware I do not know if IPv6 is enabled by default.

    The vast majority of consumers use a router from their provider and the vast majority of those routers support IPv6 and have it enabled by default. Your provider's router certainly does.

    But hey open ports is asking for trouble so they would drop every
    incoming connection until it is configured otherwise

    Of course.

    In this part of the world providers must allow their clients to use their own modem/routers. By EU directive. Only a small minority (< 1%) does it. But those that do, are not users that are satisfied with old stuff that does not support IPv6. The vast majority of routers now for sale support IPv6.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 17:22:09 2025
    Hey Dennis!

    On Thu, Aug 07 2025 00:51:26 -0500, you wrote:

    Indeed. But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not
    use fido anymore and you forget about it or your IPv6 has been
    changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your DNS..
    than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work anymore as you
    are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.

    This sounds much more plausible, then. IPv6 could have been configured at one point (as you say), and then they bought a new router, or anything that could cause their IPv6 address to change, and never realized to change their DNS settings.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Aug 7 17:33:50 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Thu, Aug 07 2025 05:04:57 -0500, you wrote:

    What do you mean by "points to A" in this context?

    Well, please excuse me as I haven't had to configure my DNS for years since my v4 and v6 addresses don't change unless I change hardware. But, if I remember right, when I first setup my domain, I remember there being "@" in a bunch of settings (for example "www.pharcyde.org" pointed to "@") .. which now that I'm writing it out I think this had more to do with aliases and CNAMEs, and am confusing that with this discussion. :|

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a
    firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a very
    few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware, until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 8 08:19:20 2025

    Hello Michiel!

    07 Aug 25 16:26, you wrote to me:

    IPv6 is still niche ..

    I disagree. While it is not yet the dominant protocol, it hovers just under 50% global use. It is not a niche.

    For end-users it is. (imho).

    so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they
    only do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM
    manufacturer for end-user consumer market)

    How long ago was that?

    that would have been 14 years ago ;) If we talk about old routers I do not talk about routers
    <5 year <grin>

    The vast majority of consumers use a router from their provider and
    the vast majority of those routers support IPv6 and have it enabled by default. Your provider's router certainly does.

    I'm in bridge mode ;) but yep they offer it by DHCP request indeed ;)


    Dennis


    ... We ran out of bandwidth because you streamed cat videos.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Fri Aug 8 08:23:18 2025

    Hello Nick!

    07 Aug 25 17:22, you wrote to me:

    Indeed. But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not
    use fido anymore and you forget about it or your IPv6 has been
    changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your
    DNS.. than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work
    anymore as you are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.

    This sounds much more plausible, then. IPv6 could have been configured
    at one point (as you say), and then they bought a new router, or
    anything that could cause their IPv6 address to change, and never
    realized to change their DNS settings.

    Even more simpler: I have IPv6 by DHCP, some time ago I configured IPv6 and it was working fine
    my uplink and where I crash my netmail can work on IPv6.

    All working fine unattended. Suddenly I got a netmail from my uplink telling me that since a few days he sees some error not able to deliver mail by IPv6 but only IPv4 ..

    Issue whas that after a firmware upgrade or something else I do not remember IPv6 was not
    well activated on the router anymore and I had to apply / restart the router.

    Not being made aware could potentially caused my AAAA record being active but never be responsive anymore.
    Hence it could be that I could call with IPv6 to my uplink but never got mail back on it only IPv4.

    Even now:
    I changed my subscription yesterday with my IPS.
    they made some network changes. my router does not tell me my IPv6 anymore, but it is still working
    In this situation my router should need another reboot probably.
    or wait until its DHCP is expired (maybe) ..

    Dennis


    ... Outsourcing the problem to the next guy.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Sat Aug 9 10:57:31 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Thursday August 07 2025 17:33, you wrote to me:

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a
    firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a
    very few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly
    certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable
    IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have
    even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the
    public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware, until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Aug 10 10:17:05 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Sat, Aug 09 2025 03:57:31 -0500, you wrote:

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly
    certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable
    IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have
    even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the
    public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware,
    until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.

    Correct, in my case. But how many others out there might still be using a router like that. If they aren't broken (in their eyes), many don't bother upgrading until they absolutely have to.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Nick Boel on Sun Aug 10 17:46:16 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Sunday August 10 2025 10:17, you wrote to me:

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.

    Correct, in my case. But how many others out there might still be
    using a router like that. If they aren't broken (in their eyes), many don't bother upgrading until they absolutely have to.

    We don't know how many are still in use, we can only guess and my guess is: "very few". As there is nothing I can do about it, I am not willing to make it my problem. If somenone thinks he/she is smart enough to run his or her own router but is stupid enough to not update two decades old stuff, it is their problem. I can fight ignorance, not stupidity.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6.600 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 15 21:14:40 2025
    Hi Michiel.

    05 Aug 25 18:20, you wrote to Dmitry Protasoff:

    I have 3 in my list of IPv6 nodes.

    10 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native KPN f INO4
    61 2:460/5858 Stas Mishchenkov Native KCT/he.net f INO4
    71 2:221/10 Tommi Koivula Native Hetzner f INO4

    Who is number 4?

    There is a strong candidate in Sweden...

    ===
    Parsing nodelist file /bbs/nodelist/NODELIST.NDL
    Nodelist for Friday, August 15, 2025 -- Day number 227 parsed, 928 IP-nodes processed (0.022 sec)
    Calling '2:20/0'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
    Now is: 1811 UTC.
    eljaco.se, 24555
    Calling 2:20/0 (2001:9b1:10d:77::52b:24555)
    OPT CRAM-MD5-c4da1bbbea11fcde74fa757076fd51ee
    SYS Felten's Sharp System
    ZYZ Bj�rn Felten
    LOC S�ve, Sweden
    NDL 115200,TCP,BINKP
    TIME Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:11:11 +0200
    VER binkd/1.1a-65/Win32 binkp/1.1
    address: 2:203/0@fidonet
    address: 2:20/0@fidonet
    address: 2:2/2@fidonet
    address: 2:203/2@fidonet
    OPT EXTCMD
    2001:9b1:10d:77::52b - Ok.
    Session with 2:20/0 done.
    Calling 2:20/0 (94.254.14.141:24555)
    error (Connection timed out)
    ===

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: FPoint (2:221/6.600)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Aug 16 16:43:54 2025
    Hello Tommi,

    On Friday August 15 2025 21:14, you wrote to me:

    I have 3 in my list of IPv6 nodes.

    10 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native KPN f INO4
    61 2:460/5858 Stas Mishchenkov Native KCT/he.net f INO4
    71 2:221/10 Tommi Koivula Native Hetzner f INO4

    Who is number 4?

    There is a strong candidate in Sweden...

    [..]

    address: 2:203/0@fidonet
    address: 2:20/0@fidonet
    address: 2:2/2@fidonet
    address: 2:203/2@fidonet
    OPT EXTCMD
    2001:9b1:10d:77::52b - Ok.
    Session with 2:20/0 done.
    Calling 2:20/0 (94.254.14.141:24555)
    error (Connection timed out)

    Probably a temporary glitch. I connect without problems. Ipv4 and IPv6.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
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